Parasites are the leading cause of death in goats. Although people usually think of intestinal worms immediately, coccidia are intestinal protozoa that can cause death in kids, as well as diarrhea and overall poor body condition. Just as over-reliance on drugs has caused problems with dewormer resistance, some people are seeing drug-resistant coccidia. In both cases, this happens because people use drugs more often than is needed or they use drugs rather than management to keep their goats healthy.
With only three types of drugs available to treat coccidiosis — sulfa drugs, amprolium, and toltrazuril — it is not hard to find yourself with a resistance problem. Like other health issues, including worms, you will never be able to get control of it by only using drugs. You need a coccidia prevention plan based upon management.
Table of Contents
Prevent infection
First, you have to eliminate the source of infection as much as possible. All adults have some level of coccidia in their intestines. Kids get infected when they nibble on soiled bedding, hay, or other food. This is why many people who bottle-feed will house all kids separately from adults. Even then, coccidiosis is a common occurrence in most herds with bottle-fed kids. It can be spread from adult areas to kid areas on the bottom of your shoes because stepping on poop in unavoidable.
Years ago when one of my mentors tried to impress upon me the importance of a clean barn, I thought she was nuts. Seriously, how can you keep a barn totally clean? I cringe when I think of what my barn bedding used to look like — lots of exposed goat berries. Today, I tell all of our interns that if they don’t think a stall is clean enough for them to sit in, it needs more straw. In other words, cover up all the exposed poop.
Since goats poop little berries, most of it slips through the straw. You don’t wind up with a lot being exposed if you give it daily attention. Depending upon how many goats are in a stall overnight, we usually need to add one or two flakes of straw every day or two. If you have lots of poop all over the bedding every morning, you either need more bedding or you simply have too many goats in that space.
Excellent nutrition
Second, kids need the antibodies in their mother’s milk because they are born with a very immature immune system. I’ve heard far too many people talk about cutting back on bottles or separating kids from their mother nightly when they are only a few weeks old.
They assume that since the kid is eating hay or grain, they don’t need the milk that much. That’s just not true. Milk has an entirely different nutrient profile than other foods. It contains easily digestible protein and calcium for their fast-growing bodies.
A well-fed kid will increase its birth weight three to ten times by the time it’s two months old, depending upon breed. The larger breeds don’t seem to multiply their weight as much as smaller breeds. My Nigerian dwarf kids grow from 2 – 4 pounds to 17 – 24 pounds, increasing their birth weight by seven to ten times in two months, while my friend with Kikos only sees her goats triple or quadruple their birth weight by the time she weans at three months. But milk is far more than simply a way to get nutrients into a kid. It’s the cornerstone of good health.
When I was new to goats, I gave kids a maximum of 24 ounces of raw milk a day because that was the most common practice at the time. Through years of experimentation, I’ve learned that Nigerian dwarf kids do best if they’re getting 32 to 36 ounces a day of raw milk either with mom or in a bottle.
If bottle-feeding baby goats, you need to split this into three or four bottles throughout the day to avoid diarrhea. People who want to get kids down to only two bottles a day as quickly as possible wind up giving the kids less milk than they need because kids will get diarrhea if they drink too much milk in a single bottle.
At 24 ounces a day, kids will grow well, but you might have a problem with coccidiosis. At 16 ounces, the kids’ growth will be slow, and they will have big problems with coccidiosis and worms. People who bottle-feed at that level or use milk replacer also start kids on coccidiostats at three weeks of age. This is why I don’t let a first freshener feed triplets (I bottle-feed one) and why a doe has to have a good milking history for me to even consider letting her raise quadruplets. Even then, I weigh the kids daily for the first two weeks and weekly for the first two months. For a Nigerian dwarf doe to adequately nourish triplets, she needs to produce at least 4 pounds a day (1/2 gallon) for good growth. The more she produces beyond that, the healthier the kids will be.
Weighing kids regularly is the key to overcoming coccidiosis problems in your herd. Since we started weighing kids daily in 2014, we have had one case of coccidiosis in a kid. And when helping others who have kids with challenging problems with coccidiosis, being underweight is always part of the picture.
Far too many people think they can eyeball their kids’ body condition to know they are getting enough milk. But when we started weighing kids, I discovered that the scale will tell me I have a problem long before my eyeballs and hands would have known. I want to see my ND kids gain an average of 4 ounces per day. If a kid is not hitting that target, we supplement them. No one has eyeballs or hands sensitive enough to be able to see that a kid is gaining only 2 ounces per day versus 4 ounces per day, yet that is the difference between merely surviving and thriving.
When I had this conversation with someone last year, she insisted that her doe had been successfully raising quads. I asked her to weigh them. She reported back that their weights varied from 14 to 24 pounds. Obviously, someone was getting way more than his fair share while his “little” sister was terribly under-nourished.
Also, after weighing kids regularly, I realized that I was not really happy with the idea of selling them if they were less than 20 pounds. For more than a decade I had followed the common practice of selling kids at two months, even though I sometimes worried about the kids because I just didn’t feel like they were big enough. But I had never heard anyone talk about using weight as guideline for weaning. However, it makes far more sense than simply picking a random date on the calendar. Virtually all of my kids do hit that 20-pound goal by 8 to 10 weeks of age, and I sleep much better at night after selling kids when they are 20 pounds or heavier.
Unfortunately, I get a lot of messages from people who have kids with chronic coccidiosis, which weigh only 10-15 pounds at three to four months of age. In this video, I show you some of the spreadsheets where we track kids’ weight gain, including quintuplets that doubled their weight before they were two weeks old and also hit that 20 pound mark by two months of age.
Avoid stress
Stress is the third part of the coccidiosis picture. If goats are stressed by weaning or moving to a new farm, they are more likely to have a problem. For this reason, we never wean doelings that are staying on our farm. We separate them from their mothers overnight starting at two months of age so that we can milk the dam in the morning, but they spend the day on the pasture with each other. By doing this, we no longer have a problem with coccidiosis or worms in our doelings, and they usually grow fast enough to breed for kidding as yearlings.What NOT to do …
Most of the drugs that are sold to treat coccidiosis also have instructions on the label providing dosages for using the drugs as a preventative. This is a bad idea because if you are giving one of those drugs, and your goats get coccidiosis in spite of it, then the coccidia is resistant to that drug.
Remember, there are only three different types of drugs in the US, so you need to avoid using them as much as possible. You want those drugs to work when you really need them. If you know you have a chronic problem, have not been able to get a handle on the management yet, and you want to use a chemical preventative, you can use a feed additive or medicated feed. These alternatives have a completely different mode of action than the drugs that are used to treat an active infection.
People often worry about kids dying from coccidiosis, but the reality is that a low-grade chronic infection can be just as devastating. It can do permanent damage to the intestines so that the goat will always have trouble absorbing nutrients and will never grow to its full potential.
As the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Years ago, seeing diarrhea-covered kids seemed an inevitable part of spring. But by changing our management practices, kids with coccidiosis have become the exception rather than the norm.
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Amen
Thank you for sharing this information. When I first started raising goats, I went through some very difficult loses due to having little knowledge myself and not being able to find helpful accurate information. I love your site. You are a wealth of information.
You’re welcome! I’m so happy to hear you’ve found it helpful!
Thank you! Invaluable information.
New to goats. Didn’t know any of this Two weeks ago bought to ND/mini Boer mixes (75/25). They were 8 weeks. The one that was weaned is smaller than the one who was weaned second ☹️ didn’t know weight. Started weighing at 10 weeks out of couriosity…
No access to momma’s milk. What do I help them now??? They are 11 weeks, temps are 103.2&103.4, eating very well, playing, but today started sneezing. No diarrhea.
I am not clear on what your concern is. You never said how much they weigh. The temperature is normal. If they only started sneezing today, that could just be because of dust in the air or in the hay, etc.
Thank you! Very helpful!
Good article! Thanks.
Am going to give a copy of this to EVERY person I sell a goat to. Thank you.
Are you saying a well fed kid of any breed should increase its birth weight 7-10 times by two months old? So my 8-pound Sable newborns should weigh 56-80 pounds at 8 weeks? I feed my kids milk free choice and do intense rotational grazing with their pens (to virtually eliminate risk of parasite exposure) and have never, ever come anywhere close to that kind of growth rate. I don’t know that such a statement can be broadly applied to all breeds.
Thanks for pointing that out. Even though I used to have LaManchas, I sometimes forget that I’m writing for an audience that has other breeds. I’ve edited the post to include weight gains of larger breeds.
I agree they need that milk! Bottle babies seem yo be more vulnerable. I prevent cocci in my bottle babies by using cinnamon. I start adding it to their bottlea when they are about 1-2 weeks old. About a 1/4tsp per bottle. IF I get a case of actual cocci I treat them at least 3 times a day with a larger dose of cinnamon, if its really bad it can be given every 15 minutes. Never had to gjve it that often.
I figured this out several years ago. Had a bottle baby I brought home, he got diarrhea, so I did a fecal. I quit counting eggs at 130, treated him with cinnamon for 4 times a day for 3 days. Diarrhea was gone with in 24 hours and ran a second fecal on the 3rd day and he had less than 10 eggs on the slide.. I also give electrolytes when babies especially get diarrhea.
My momma babies rarely get it. Most feed pans are up off the ground and hayracks too.
I enjoy reading your page. Its nice to read common sense goat info.
what does the cinnamon do I have a baby that has cocci
How much cinnamon do you give per lb?
Hi Kim
We do not have a recommendation for cinnamon. This is a previous response from Deborah about using it-
I can’t speak for the person who posted the comment about cinnamon, but I have not been able to find any research in mammals on cinnamon and coccidia, and since I’m on a university faculty, I searched the academic database. There is a study published with chickens in Portuguese that used oregano, rosemary, cinnamon essential oil, and pepper extract, but I can’t get enough info from the English summary to even figure out how much cinnamon they used. There is also a study done in vitro, which means in test tubes, so who knows if that would translate to goats or any other mammals. You can kill lots of things in test tubes, but it doesn’t actually work in living creatures.
~Tammy
Hi Deborah,
Do you recommend starting young kids on a feed that includes a coccidiostat? What is the “mode of action” of a coccidiostat? I understand the object is to reduce cocci not to eliminate them. What is the difference between Rumensin and Decoquinate? What are the pros and cons of each? Are both toxic to horses and donkeys?? I, too, would like to know how cinnamon affects cocci!?
Thank you for the information.
Drugs should NEVER be a routine part of goat management, and medicated feed is a drug. Drugs should only be used when necessary. The only time I use medicated feed is when weaning bucklings that are not in excellent body condition because the stress of weaning will cause an increase in the coccidia, resulting in coccidiosis. This is why I work so hard to be sure my kids get plenty of milk from mom — so that they grow big as quickly as possible, which is really important for any kid that will be kept as a buck because he’s going to have to be separated from mom by 2-3 months. A big healthy buckling can handle the stress of weaning just fine.
Coccidiostats do not kill coccidia. They simply slow down reproduction so that you don’t get an overabundance of them, which is what leads to coccidiosis. Rumensin and Decoquinate are just different brands of coccidiostat, and this study showed no difference in their efficacy: http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.4141/A00-063.
Both are toxic to equines.
I can’t speak for the person who posted the comment about cinnamon, but I have not been able to find any research in mammals on cinnamon and coccidia, and since I’m on a university faculty, I searched the academic database. There is a study published with chickens in Portuguese that used oregano, rosemary, cinnamon essential oil, and pepper extract, but I can’t get enough info from the English summary to even figure out how much cinnamon they used. There is also a study done in vitro, which means in test tubes, so who knows if that would translate to goats or any other mammals. You can kill lots of things in test tubes, but it doesn’t actually work in living creatures.
Just goes to show the limitations of academics — I’m trying cinnamon and curcumin, natural cures. Dr George, DMA MCS BA/BA
What you posted is so true~ I have also eliminated problems this way…. I just want to add though that if there is ever a problem, while treating, giving 3×60 cc of blended banana/ apple juice(twice a day) will offer a natural electrolyte as well as stool thickner… can easily save animals while being treated. Give it until animal is recuperated. I use a 60 cc syringe with the poin cut off so sucking up blended mixture is easy; I place the syringe directly into the mouth to the back teeth and with head level, squeeze gently as the goat swallows. After a couple servings the goats will come running for it… they love it
Thank you great information!!
How can I tell if my goats have this parasite???
They have had their immunizations, I only have 3 wethers, that are a year old
Registered Pygmies. I got them when they were 4 weeks old and bottle feed them, they have been routinely dewormed and eat medicated grain from Purina, Timothy Grass, have Goat Minerals, Salt Blocks, And Mineral Block In their pen.
Durning the day they are outside , pen is cleaned 1-2 times a day.
At night they are placed inside for safety that cage is cleaned daily and bedding is replaced daily.
All goats normally have it, and it’s fine. It’s only a problem for adults if they are otherwise sick and their immune system is suppressed. I’ve only had one or two adults in 17 years need to be treated for this. There is not an immunization for this, and it is not a worm.
You should NOT be giving dewormer on a regular basis, or it will stop working when you do need it.
https://thriftyhomesteader.com/dewormer-resistance-in-goats/
Medicated grain is for coccidia, but it should ONLY be given during times of stress, such as weaning. If given long term, it has been linked to vitamin E deficiency, so you should stop giving that to them.
Also, no salt block — that will cause them to consume less of their minerals, which have salt in them. They should have loose minerals — not a block because their tongues are soft, so they can’t get enough from a block.
https://thriftyhomesteader.com/goat-minerals/
More is not always better, and you could be killing them with kindness. All wethers need is a good grass hay, a loose mineral free choice, and pasture and fresh water.
Hello Debra, what medicated grain for coccidia due to weaning would you recommend? They will be 6 weeks, and 3 weeks old.
Hi Melinda!
If they need to be treated for coccidiosis medicated feed will not work for that. They need an actual medication, such as Corid or a Sulfa drug from the vet.
If you are just wanting to use a medicated feed to help prevent coccidiosis during the stress of weaning you can look for a medicated 16% protein goat specific feed that has at least 30ppm copper and 0.5ppm selenium or as close to as you can find.
Your goats are really young for weaning already. Especially the 3 week old. One of the best preventions for coccidiosis is to stay on milk until they are close to 1/3 their adult weight. Not sure of their breed, but for instance, that would be 20# for a Nigerian Dwarf, regardless of the age. A ND gaining an optimal 4oz per day would reach that weight at about 8-10 weeks of age.
~Tammy
Hello Tammy,
Thank you for your reply. I believe I need to give you more information for a better assessment of the situation. Your input is greatly appreciated.
To clarify we aren’t trying to treat for coccidiosis but to prevent it from occurring due to moving as that was what I understood we needed to do from Debra’s information. Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, these are Nigerian Dwarfs.
Firstly, one buckling will be 6 weeks old and is being weaned off his mom this week to the bottle before we pick him up this Saturday. The other buckling and doeling were born on the 22nd of December. They are nursing from their mom and being bottle fed 3x/day. I was assured that she had sold 3 last year at about 3 weeks and they are thriving. These 3 are all coming from the same herd, but her other goats had to be dewormed 2 weeks ago using the FAMACHA scoring system. Any advice or opinions with regards to this and the kids would be helpful as well. I told her not to deworm the 6 week old as his FAMACHA score was very pink (was this the right thing to do?). She didn’t weigh any of them when they were born and said she wouldn’t that if I wanted to I can keep track once I have them. I had asked for that to see if they were gaining what they should.
So because they will be coming to us I wanted to prevent coccidiosis due to the move and separation from their moms. What would be the best course of action?
Secondly, we are also considering 3 does from another farm which would have to be quarantined. One doe is 7 months and the other 2 were born on the 1st of January (they were born 5/6 days early and because they were small were separated from mom and have been bottled feeding on their mom’s milk. She wanted to have us get them at 3 weeks old, because were born small isn’t that a bit too early? Also, any protocol for what this would look like coming to our place would be helpful to know what to decide to do here, whether to go ahead or not. Also, would it be the same process of medicated feed. She usually uses Toltrazuril for prevention, but I am uncertain as what is the right thing to do here with the 7 month and the 2 doelings.
Hello again
Thanks for clarifying 🙂
Yes- using medicated feed is one thing you can do to help prevent an overgrowth of coccidia during stressful transitions such as weaning and relocation.
The others are- keeping bedding and eating/drinking areas as free of poop as possible. This can be accomplished by topping bedding off with each day with a fresh new layer; this is known as the deep bedding method. The goal is to decrease contact with poop and poop contaminated soil as much as you can.
Secondly you want to stay right on top of their nutrition. They are building their immune system right now and a very well managed nutrition profile will give them the best building blocks. So be sure they are getting the proper volume of milk based on weight each day. You should also introduce hay into their diet if they are not on it already. The best hay for growing kids is alfalfa as it is high in protein and calcium which are very beneficial for growing bones and muscles. Research also tells us that diets sufficient in protein are very beneficial in helping to fight off parasites as well as helping to recover from a large load of them. Follow directions on the package for the medicated 16% goat feed. It is typically something like 1-2% of body weight per day. Do not leave goat feed out free choice but alfalfa hay should be. They will nibble on it and gradually increase intake as their rumens mature
It is quite common for bottle babies to be rehomed when they are very young, so just stay on top of proper nutrition and they should do just fine.
Keep an eye on FAMACHA scores. Stress can also make them more susceptible to a worm burden. For kids, I recommend deworming anyone with a score of 3, 4, or 5.
I am pasting a link to the bottle basics article for you as well as a link to using dewormers correctly to have as reference. Transitioning the 6-week old from mom to bottle is going to be extremely challenging, so I hope she is able to do that. If he is already 20# or close to it he should do fine without the milk, but if he is closer to 15# you will really need to keep a closer eye on him to be sure he is eating enough hay and grain to continue weight gain.
Toltrazuril is a great product for treating coccidiosis, but unfortunately it is not labeled for use in goats or even allowed as an extra-label medication for them here in the US. That being said I am neutral on any advice surrounding it.
Tammy
https://thriftyhomesteader.com/bottle-feeding-goat-kids/
https://thriftyhomesteader.com/using-dewormers-correctly/
Thank you so much for all that helpful information. I know about the deep bedding as I read that from one of Deborah’s video’s or articles so we will be doing that. It is what we do for our chickens as well. I feel much more at ease thanks to you.
With regards to milk would you recommend whole milk vs goat milk replacer or vice versa for them? I want them to get the best nutrition possible and there are so many varying opinions it’s hard to know without experience.
If the 6 weeks old has a FAMACHA score of one of the above should I have him dewormed prior to pick up or wait till he gets here?
Blessings to you!
Hi Melinda
Whether to use whole milk or milk replacer is entirely up to you. I personally prefer whole milk when I do not have frozen milk from my herd available. It is convenient to store in my extra fridge, readily available, and there are no possibilities of improper mixing since it is ready to use. With replacers you do have to be careful that you do not make an error in mixing it as that can make kids very sick. In addition, it’s not as convenient to access as whole milk. Nutritionally compared, it’s 6 of one half dozen of the other 🙂
Honestly if a 6-week old kid I was purchasing had a FAMACHA of 4 or 5 I would not purchase it. The stress of moving and weaning from mom would be playing with fire. You don’t want to start with a sick kid.
If he is a 3, and you are picking him up on Saturday I would say it is up to you. If she says he is very pink, that sounds good, but your opinion will come into play when you have the opportunity to see for yourself. Unless you ask her you have no idea if what she is deworming with is effective or not. Lots of people still use old, outdated, or simply ineffective deworming protocols. That being said, lots of people are doing things the right way these days as well 🙂 If she does deworm him, be sure to find what she used, how much she gave, and what route of administration so you have that for your records.
Feel free to email us at thriftyhomesteaderteam@thriftyhomesteader.com
Tammy
So i think you’ve said triplets, wait to separate until,they’re a month
old?
No. With triplets, you wait until they are two months old before separating. Here is more info on that:
https://thriftyhomesteader.com/how-many-kids-can-doe-feed/
Hi, I have a problem I don’t know what to do about. I determined that my goats (myotonics approx.8 months old) were probably copper deficient, which Iam treating. But, in addition, they have bloated looking bellies. They are not in any distress but their bellies right up next to the spine looks bloated. It also seems like they aren’t gaining muscle like they should. Thank you!
That’s a great description of a hay belly. They are stuffing themselves because they are essentially starving due to parasites, probably worms, which are either sucking their blood (barber pole) or consuming the food in their digestive tract. If you pull down their eyelids and they are pale pink or white inside, that’s barber pole worm. If the eyelids are bright pink or red, they are not anemic, so it’s probably a different roundworm. All of the roundworms are treated with the same dewormers though. Here is more info on deworming:
https://thriftyhomesteader.com/deworming-goats/
Just thought id share a tip; when you want to wean kids, you might try securely putting bandaging micropore tape around the dam’s teats. be careful not to be too tight so circulation is not cut off. you can remove it gently when milking. it worked quite well for me because although the kid was confused and couldnt drink, he wasnt stressed as he wasnt separated from his mom.
i dont claim it will work for everyone, but it did for me; i have had goats only 3years but havent had a case of cocci in kids in this time
*i dont recommend duct tape/other tapes as they completely stop air reaching the teats. also, clean the teats thoroughly before taping them and make sure its dry.
You didn’t mention what age you’re weaning or how many goats you have, and that can make a huge difference. Weaning at two months is riskier than weaning at six months when the kid’s immune system is more developed. Having only 3-4 goats puts your kids at less risk than having 20 goats. Having goats on pasture puts them at less risk for coccidiosis than keeping them in a barn most of the time (which is the opposite for worm risk).
Another reason we quit weaning kids is because we realized that within a few days of not letting kids nurse, the doe’s milk supply would fall dramatically — sometimes by as much as half. So we realized that if we just let the kids keep nursing, we could get almost a much milk and only need to milk once a day — in the morning after having the kids separated overnight. A European study explained what we learned from our goats — when kids nurse, they cause the release of oxytocin. That does not happen when we milk a goat, which means we will get less milk because oxytocin is responsible for the milk ejection reflex. This is why you may have felt like a goat was holding back on you. She’s not doing it on purpose, but you’re right if you think that you’re not getting all of the milk. That inhibited milk ejection does seem to diminish with time, but by then, the supply is down. So letting the kids continue to nurse is a win-win for the kid and us.
Taping teats does reduce stress on kids, but there is the risk of the tape coming off and being swallowed by a kid, which could end badly.
Thanks for pointing these out!. its true that i have a small herd only, that makes it much easier to keep things clean and probably accounts for less parasite load overall. Also, i dont usually wean kids until they are about 3 months old, only once did i wean a 2 month old when his dam became accidentally pregnant again, so that might also have a hand in coccidia prevention. although i never had a problem yet with the tape thing, i will be more cautious when using it again. now that you mention the risk of accidental swallowing,that does sound scary! i got this advice from a breeder but never considered the risks….
For future reference, there is no need to wean kids when a doe get pregnant until she is three months pregnant. Just because you saw a goat get bred when her kid was only 2 months old does not mean she got pregnant. It’s not impossible, but the odds are against a doe getting pregnant again when she’s nursing two month old kids. Although there are rare exceptions, most does dry up when they are 2-3 months pregnant.
thanks for the advice! I would not normally have weaned the kids that early, but the mom was also a bit underweight and needed to be dewormed etc….i thought the kid would put more strain on her. She did turn out to be pregnant with twins later on. good to know that its rare
Hello
Our 2 new kids have Coccidiosis. One had scours and we took fecals to our vet and our vet prescribed Corid. Today is their last treatment. We cleaned the heck out of everything and it was a new goat house and large pen, so it wasn’t our lack of cleaning/care. They are both acting normal and playing, eating, and drinking. We have probiotics, but I can’t get vitamin b until next week. We have some brewers yeast and I read that a very small amount may help. What should we do next? Another fecal? What preventative care can we do? Kind of overwhelming first week of goat ownership. Thank you!
I am so sorry to hear this! It definitely wasn’t your fault if they were diagnosed with coccidiosis the first week. If the diarrhea is gone, they should be fine. And since you’ve cleaned everything, they shouldn’t have any trouble with it again. I have never given brewer’s yeast to a goat, so I have no idea what kind of effect it might have, positive or negative. If the kids are otherwise healthy, I don’t worry about vitamin B. A goat with a healthy rumen produces its own thiamine, which is what Corid depletes, and I have not heard of an otherwise healthy goat having a problem after a 5-day treatment at the prescribed dose.
Congratulations on your new goats! I’m sure they’ll steal your heart in no time. Feel free to pop in here anytime you have questions!
I love reading your blog!
I am learning!! I get goat fever every spring and am actually almost ready to take the leap of faith!
I have 3 acres and would dearly enjoy pair of mini Nubians on my property !!
Thank you for all this great information!
You’re welcome! and thank you!
Hello Deborah
Once again a great article, thank you.
In regards to keeping the poop covered with fresh straw. What about barns that use stall mats and don’t use bedding? We have such a small property (1/3 acre ) that we are trying very hard to drastically reduce the manure pile. The floors in the barn are made of patio stones and up until now the bedding was simply the wasted hay ! The size of the manure pile was huge. We have finally won the battle of wasted hay 🙂 but now the floor is virtually bare and berries all over the place. Should I simply sweep 2 x day?
My second question is in regards to using medicated feed. If the kids have gained weight well and are in good body condition. What would you feed them in order to get them used to eating grains for weight gain in prep for weaning? We tried figuring out a creep feeder system (huge fail lol) the kids just kept eating the moms feed. I didn’t mind that except we were feeding a dairy ration and I worried it would be bad for the males.
Third and last for today ……what kind of a scale system do you use? We just used the bathroom scale with my husband holding the kids. This worked decent to make sure they were gaining but it sure isn’t accurate enough to see if they are gaining ounces per day. We tried a kitchen scale but it was too small and they wouldn’t stay still enough for the digital read out to give a reading.
I cannot imagine NOT using bedding with your goats. That’s really not an option. You will likely wind up coccidiosis problems in kids. Plus you’ll have poopy udders with pee on them. Your goats should be outside all day long unless it’s raining or snowing, so they should be fertilizing your pasture and yard most of the time. In cases like yours, I usually suggest that you give away your barn waste. There are usually local gardeners who are very excited to come pick up free fertilizer.
There is nothing wrong with kids eating mom’s food. Growing kids need the same type of nutrition that milking does needs. And that’s how they learn to eat. Growing kids should also have alfalfa because they can use the high calcium when they are growing fast. Feeding them grain is NOT going to make them gain weight in preparation for weaning. Their weight gain will slow down dramatically when they stop nursing. This is why I don’t wean kids (does and wethers) that I am keeping. I cannot stress strongly enough that MILK is the thing that puts weight on kids. There is NO food in this world that will put weight on kids better than milk. It is nature’s perfect food for growing babies.
We use a digital kitchen scale when they are first born, then we use a hanging dairy scale with the kids in a bucket. We used to use a human baby scale until it broke. Here’s a video that shows you how my husband weighs kids on the digital scale. He weighs them about halfway through.
https://youtu.be/d052QLtgC0U
I do it differently. I personally tuck their feet under them and then set them on the scale (or in the box or basket) in a prone position. So, they are like, “whoa, what’s happening?” for enough time that I can get a reading before they stand up. The younger they are, the better that works. After I do it four or five times, they get faster. Hope this helps!
Hi what kind of scale do you use to weigh your kids?
Thanks
We use a digital kitchen scale when they are under 10 pounds. I tuck their feet under them so they just sit there trying to figure out what’s up long enough for the weight to register before they try to stand up. We used to use a human baby scale until it broke. Once they are over 10 pounds, we use our hanging dairy scale with the kids in a bucket. When they are too big for that, we just hold them and stand on a human scale and subtract our weight.
I have a 5 month old Kiko/Saanen doe that developed diarrhea about a month ago. Aside from the diarrhea she was eating, drinking, acting normal, and had a normal temp. Vet treated with Corid at the time and she was doing great, until today she has diarrhea again.
She has quality free feed alfalfa as well as rotational grazing. No recent change in food other than a small amount of spent barley given 2 days ago. I’m at a loss and want to avoid using Corid again if possible.
Did you treat with thiamine when using the Corid? If yes, then you counter-acted the mode of action of the Corid. Corid kills coccidia by depleting their thiamine, which freaks out a lot of people because they think their goat will become thiamine deficient. But goats produce their own thiamine in a healthy rumen, so unless you overdose or use Corid long term, you really don’t need to worry about thiamine deficiency. If so, you can always treat AFTER the coccidia has been eradicated.
There are MANY reasons for diarrhea in a goat. Coccidia is the most common reason for kids 3 weeks to 5 months, so your doe is on the outer edge of that. I personally loved using sulfa drugs when they were over-the-counter because they would take care of coccidia AND bacterial infections. Sulfa drugs are now by prescription, so I’d suggest asking your vet for a sulfa drug since you already treated with Corid and it didn’t work.
The final thing to think about is that chronic coccidiosis is usually only a problem in kids that are underweight. If she weighs quite a bit less than other kids her age, you might want to supplement her with more high protein goat feed and/or alfalfa hay or pellets to increase her protein level and help her grow. It is also something to think about in the future. Kids should be weighed regularly for the first month or two and supplemented with a bottle if their weight falls behind other kids their age.
Hi. Thank you for your articles. I am very new at raising goats and have heard several different things to do. This season we have lost 4 babies from 3 weeks to 7 weeks of age. I have no idea why. They look fine and healthy the day before but then the next day they are dead. Do you know what could be causing this? Or what we should be looking out for?
Thank you!
If they had diarrhea when they died, it could have been coccidia. It can also be starvation and malnutrition, depending upon the doe’s production and how many kids she had. What do the kids weigh at what age? What breed?
Hello, we had a problem with coccidiosis and worms last year in our kids. This year one kid developed diarrhea so I immediately wormed her and her twin and started on corid. I can’t isolate them. Both kids have diarrhea as of last night.
Today will be the 3rd day treating. My question is, should I treat all my goats with corid or just the ones showing symptoms. The vet said to treat all of them last year, but if all goats have it in their system anyway, wouldn’t that make the coccidiosis more resistant to the drug? I lost more than half of our kids last year and really don’t want to lose any this year. Trying to stay on top of things. I tried the medicated feed last year and they wouldn’t eat it. Adults and kids are together. Kids are dam raised. They get hay and grain every day, have a small pasture, and can go in the barn whenever they want. They are all under 2 months old with these two being almost the youngest. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
I’m so sorry to hear about you losing so many kids last year. There are two pieces to the coccidia puzzle — (1) environment, and (2) immune system.
Kids that are kept indoors are more likely to have an overload of coccidia, especially if there is a lot of exposed fecal matter in the barn. I always tell our interns that if the straw isn’t clean enough for them to go sit down and play with the kids, it’s not clean enough for the kids. The kids get infected by picking up things in their mouth that have touched poop, such as bedding and hay that falls on the ground and then gets pooped on. During the winter, we are adding fresh straw to the pens with kids daily so that there isn’t exposed poop.
The other side of the equation is the kids’ immune system. If the kids are not getting enough milk from mom, they will have a very poor immune response to things like coccidia and worms. We weigh our kids daily for the first two weeks and then weekly after that to be sure everyone is gaining enough. For our Nigerian dwarf kids, that means 4 ounces a day. I expect them to double their birth weight by 2 weeks of age and to reach 20 pounds by 8 to 10 weeks. When they meet these benchmarks, we have 0 cases of coccidiosis and worms. We also do NOT start milking mom until the kids are 20 pounds — unless she has only one kid. If she has only one kid then we milk her twice a day without separating the kid, so it can get as much milk as it needs, and we just keep the supply up since one kid can only consume so much.
Your vet is suggesting that you treat everyone with Corid to reduce the coccidia in the environment with drugs. You can also reduce the coccidia in the environment by cleaning out your barn. I realize that is not easy this time of year in some parts of the country. That’s why we just add fresh straw every day to cover up the poop until spring comes.
You mentioned that they have a small pasture, which could also be part of the problem if there is a lot of poop out there. I’m in Illinois, and I don’t let kids go outside in spring until mid-April when the grass is at least 6 inches tall. And then they go onto our front yard with electric net fencing because that grass has no had goats on it for 11 months, which means 0 worm larvae or coccidia.
As a vet professor said to me many years ago when we were losing goats left and right to parasites — you will never get control of parasite with drugs. The key is proper management. And another very wise old vet said, “I’ve known a lot of people go broke successfully treating sick animals.” You want to prevent parasites and illness in the first place with proper management and excellent nutrition. And for kids, mom’s milk is the absolutely gold standard.
So a little grain mix from mamas dish will be ok? Will grain consumption add to diarrhea issues? While on Albon for coccidia should any amount of grain be withheld from kids?
Assuming that you’re giving the mom a reasonable amount of grain that she finishes within a few minutes, it won’t hurt the kid to nibble a little bit with her. Too much grain can cause diarrhea regardless of the coccidia status. And if the diarrhea is caused by coccidiosis, the diarrhea should be gone in 24-48 hours. If it is not, I’d take a fecal to the vet because there are a couple dozen causes of diarrhea, although coccidiosis is the most common cause for kids 3 weeks to 5 months.
Thanks again for the great info!
I have a rejected triplet for whom I’m going to need to get some milk replacer. I may need to supplement all the kids because I don’t think mom is giving them quite enough.
– Did I read you correctly that you *don’t* recommend medicated replacer for prevention?
– Do you know how much full-size dairy goats kids should gain daily or weekly?
Thank you!!
Thanks again for the great info!
I have a rejected triplet for whom I’m going to need to get some milk replacer. I may need to supplement all the kids because I don’t think mom is giving them quite enough.
– Did I read you correctly that you *don’t* recommend medicated replacer for prevention? Any recommended replacers?
– Do you know how much full-size dairy goats kids should gain daily or weekly?
Thank you!!
I don’t recommend any drugs be routinely given to heathy goats. Drugs should be used strategically, short term, and only when needed. If you need them all the time, then there are some changes that need to be made to management.
Here are the basics of bottle feeding goat kids, including how much to do the math to figure out how much to feed:
https://thriftyhomesteader.com/bottle-feeding-goat-kids/
Since I raise Nigerian dwarf goats, I don’t have the kind of data on other breeds that I do on Nigerians, but if you keep track of weight gain for your kids, you can get an idea of who is doing okay and who is falling behind the curve. If you put the data on a spreadsheet and graph it, it becomes quite illuminating. For my Nigerian dwarf goats, I expect a weight gain of 4 ounces per day for the first couple of months and that they will double their weight by about two weeks. For my Katahdin sheep, I expect 1/2 pound per day. Be sure to use something like a digital kitchen scale or hanging dairy scale that can weigh in ounces. A bathroom scale doesn’t work for tracking weight gain on a daily basis when you’re talking about ounces.
Do you dose Corid as indicated on the package? Or is it different for goats vs cattle?
Yes, you use the cattle dosage for TREATING coccidiosis in goats — and you use the individual doses. Don’t add it to water because you have no control over whether or not they really get what they need. If someone has 500 cattle, then adding it to the water trough makes sense, but if you’re treating a goat or two, they need to be treated individually once a day for 5 days. Do not use Corid for prevention of coccidiosis in goats. Use the medicated feed, but only short term during times of stress when infection is likely, such as weaning.
Thank you for the thorough advice!! You’re a huge help.
You’re welcome! We’re glad you found it helpful.
Hi! I have a 10-week-old doeling who had clinical signs of coccidia. She was treated with Albon, 5 days which my vet prescribed. Her stool is finally coming back together, not quite normal yet though, but it is very mucos-y. Is that normal? Or does she need to be treated again?
Thank you!
Hi Heidi
If it has only been 5 days, it may take a little longer for her system to get completely back to normal goat pellets, especially since sometimes antibiotics can throw things off as well.
I would start her on some probiotics, and keep a close eye on her appetite, and general demeanor. If things do not start to improve soon, worth a call to the vet.
Also- be sure to look at possible cause of the initial coccidiosis problem, so that you can remedy that and avoid reinfection.
Be sure bedding is nice and clean, and that the water is changed/cleaned frequently, as well as clean food bowls. Goat poop is everywhere when you have goats, and that transmits the coccidia, so keeping eating and sleeping areas as poop free as possible is key.
~Tammy
Hi,
In May ‘23, I acquired a 8y/o freshened doe, she was clean when I got her: 325 Coccidia, my existing 10y/o had only 50.
This new doe had only been dewormed with herbal dewormer. She had a bout of diarrhea in 7/23, Coccidia up to 1050, recent check 9/23 is now 2800. My other doe has jumped to 900. My vet doesn’t recommend any treatment unless symptoms appear.
They are mostly fed separately and neither are big grazers on an acre pasture.
Wondering if the herbal dewormer was keeping the Coccidia in check. Before I shell out money for this experiment, any thoughts?
Hello
It is uncommon for coccidia to cause coccidiosis (illness from coccidia) in an adult goat. Adults will have varying amounts of coccidia in their system, based on their individual immune systems, but unless the goat is severely compromised they will not make them sick.
It is also important to note that there are many many different types of coccidia and most do not cause disease, but you cannot tell them apart with a fecal.
There is no published evidence that herbal dewormers treat or prevent coccidiosis or worms, BUT some herbs do help boost the immune system, and a healthy immune system is better at regulating parasite loads.
The best way to keep coccidia loads down is to establish a healthy nutrition program and to keep the overall environment free from accumulated feces. Especially in eating, drinking, and sleeping areas.
~Tammy
Thanks for the episode. You suggest keeping track of the weights to know if a kid is falling behind in weight. What do you recommend when you see that? Supplementing with a bottle, treating for coccidia,etc?
Hi Angelika
Yes- supplementing with a bottle is a great course of action, but depending on the age of the kids, it may be difficult to get them to take a bottle.
Deborah talks about different scenarios and solutions in this video. You will find lots of valuable answers to your question here 🙂
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mRVDtg9enho
Tammy
hello ma’am. A friend of my roommate dropped off a newborn baby goat and i fell into the task of caring for it .It appears to be blind in at least one eye , maybe both. Not sure . The first 2 days she brought milk from the mother but since then I have had to feed it whole milk. He was gaining weight and getting along pretty good for about 2 weeks but now he appears to be constipated. Unfortunately I have absolutely no knowledge about goats and no money for a veterinarian and so I am trying to wing it from info I find on line but it’s now been 2 days and he seems to be in pain. we tried some magnesium citrate as a laxative but it doesn’t seem to be helping. could it be something other than constipation and do you have any helpful advice for me. the hole situation is breaking my heart as I do not want to watch him suffer. He is a fiesty little guy and is hanging in pretty good but I would be greatful if you could point me in the right direction here. thank you in advance for your time .