Understanding Goat Polio: Causes, Symptoms & Treatments

Episode 155
For the Love of Goats

Goat polio is a serious and often misunderstood condition—frequently mistaken for other neurological diseases like listeriosis, meningeal worm, or even rabies. 

In this episode, Deborah Niemann is joined by Dr. Melissa Holahan, a small ruminant veterinarian, goat breeder, and former lecturer and research assistant at Washington State University. As a breeder of Nigerian Dwarf and Alpine goats herself, Dr. Holahan brings a unique combination of clinical expertise and hands-on experience to this important conversation.

Dr. Holahan explains that goat polio isn’t technically a disease on its own, but rather a syndrome caused by brain swelling (cerebral edema), often linked to a disruption in thiamine (vitamin B1) production. You’ll hear why early diagnosis and veterinary involvement are critical—and why relying solely on Facebook advice or over-the-counter B complex may not be enough to save your goat. She also shares what recovery can look like, along with potential long-term side effects.

Key Takeaways:

• What goat polio is and why it’s more accurately considered a syndrome
• How it differs from listeriosis, meningeal worm, and rabies
• Early signs and symptoms to watch for, including blindness, nystagmus (eye twitching), and mobility issues
• The role of thiamine in treatment—and the risks of incorrect dosing
• Environmental and dietary factors that can contribute, such as moldy feed, grain overload, and toxic plants
• Prevention tips, including proper nutrition, clean feeding practices, and feed security

 Connect with Our Guest

 Websites:

• Caprine & Ewe Veterinary Consulting
• Chubbe Acres Farm

Follow Dr. Holahan:

• Chubbe Acres Farm on Facebook
• Caprine & Ewe on Facebook
• @chubbeacresfarm on Instagram
• @caprineandewe on Instagram

Transcript

Introduction 0:02
For the love of goats. We are talking about everything goat. Whether you’re a goat owner, a breeder, or just a fan of these wonderful creatures, we’ve got you covered. And now, here’s Deborah Niemann.

Deborah 00:16
Hello, everyone, and welcome to today’s episode. We are joined today by Dr. Melissa Holahan, who is a small ruminant veterinarian, a former lecturer and researcher at Washington State University, and most importantly, which I think is so cool, she is actually a goat owner and breeder with Nigerian Dwarfs and Alpines. 

Some of our listeners might recognize Dr. Melissa’s name from the episode that we did on listeriosis, which can frequently be confused with the disease we’re going to be talking about today, which is goat polio. Welcome to the show today, Dr Melissa. 

Dr. Holahan 00:52
Thank you, Deborah. Thanks for having me. It’s actually nice to finally get to talk about this topic that we, I think, started this path a couple–almost, I think, October was when we had this idea. 

Deborah 01:03
Yeah, I’m so glad that we were finally able to make this happen. So I really want to talk about this, because it is one of those diseases that is very easily confused with another disease. And if you get it wrong, your goat’s going to die. Because the treatment for some of these diseases is very different. So today we are actually going to be talking about goat polio, which a lot of people think is synonymous with a thiamine deficiency, which is not necessarily the case. 

That’s one of the things we’re going to talk about today. But it’s also very easily confused with listeriosis, maybe sometimes even rabies. So it’s super important that people not just think like, Oh, the goat has this one, and that’s what I’m going to treat for. Because if you’re not right, then your goat is really in trouble. So first of all, can you tell us what exactly is goat polio, and how does it affect the health and behavior of goats? 

Dr. Holahan 01:57
Yeah, so goat polio, people think of it as a disease in itself, and I think that’s where we sometimes go wrong. Encephalomalacia is the longer term for it, which describes exactly what it does in the brain. I like to think of it more as a syndrome, or a sequela, to certain diseases, because then I think that we do a better job as farmers or goat owners and veterinarians to address the potential underlying diseases that are causing it, rather than just throwing, like you said thiamine or vitamin B1, at it. And yes, they will get better with that, but that’s not always the primary treatment that they need. 

So essentially, the long and the short is, what goat polio does is it’s going to lead to cerebral edema, which is swelling in the brain. And that’s why we as farmers, when we see this type of syndrome happening in our goats, we’re usually going to see neurologic signs. In general, although they don’t always read the book, in general, it’s symmetrical neurologic signs. A lot of owners will even just notice–if they’re very astute, and they see their goats once or twice a day right during feedings–they’ll pick up on these subtleties, and that’s usually when we want to act as a veterinarian. The sooner we can come out and look at the animal and get the underlying diagnosis, the better outcome for these animals. 

And we’re not talking about waiting hours. Like I do feel, neurologic goats, this is something where we always have the saying, don’t let the sun come down on these types of neurologic diseases. So if this is something where I get a phone call in the morning, I’m usually going to reroute my schedule so that I can make sure I go out and see that animal within a couple hours and not the next day. So in general, the long and the short is it really just causes swelling on the brain, and that’s the best way to think of it. But there’s a lot of pathways that happen before then, and that’s where lots of different types of diseases can come into play. 

Deborah 03:47
Yeah, exactly, like rabies and stuff, which I never would have thought of that one. You don’t normally hear people say that. Like it was a vet who told me that one time. So when you talk about it as swelling on the brain, then it’s like, Oh, it makes total sense. So what are the early signs of goat polio that goat owners should look at or look for to be sure that they get timely treatment? 

Dr. Holahan 04:08
Yeah, so before we talk about clinical signs, I want to mention rabies just for a minute, because I think it is really important, and we forget that rabies is always a differential, even in our livestock species, for any neurologic disease. It doesn’t have to be a specific clinical sign or symptom. Anything neurologic, and it’s really important for us as veterinarians and farmers that we be aware of that because we need to be wearing gloves. We need to make sure we’re trying to not have kids involved, or immunocompromised people involved in caring for those animals. 

Because even though rabies is uncommon, it can happen, and it is zoonotic, meaning that it can be transferred to people from animals, and then also, obviously the high morbidity and mortality associated with it. We often don’t get the diagnosis of rabies that we hear about in the news or anything like that, often, because many types those animals may die on the farm, and they just get buried, and they’re not going to be sent out to the lab where they really would have to test the brain to know for sure that it was rabies. 

And so I do think that it happens less commonly than where we see like the raccoons and bats, and you know some of our small animals become more commonly associated because people are testing them. But just to remember that it should always be on the differential list, and so we should always be wearing gloves and just being aware when we’re medicating these animals and coming in contact with their saliva. As farmers, we always have cuts on our hands, or at least I do. We gotta be careful about those contact points. 

But back to clinical signs. I think the biggest thing about clinical signs for goat polio is that it looks just like any of the other diseases, like you had just mentioned. And so sometimes we can see subtleties that might point us in one way versus the other. Like listeria, sometimes we will more commonly see a fever in those patients. They’re going to maybe be more clinically sick and not feeling well, versus goat polio. Initially, when they first start off, they’re just kind of acting a little bit off, but they may still be eating, and you may still be able to get them to eat and drink that type of thing. 

But the signs are typically symmetrical, meaning that they’re usually not going to be one sided. However, I have seen that not be the case, but you will usually see blindness. And sometimes that’s just a goat kind of just staring off, and doing the normal I-don’t-feel-good goat things, where we’re just standing off in the corner when you go for feeding time. But some owners can actually pick up on the fact that they’re blind. And usually they’re blind in both eyes. And if you stand next to them and watch very closely, you can actually see their eyes start twitching. And so that’s called nystagmus, and it’s kind of a rhythmic motion. And sometimes if you move their head around, it’ll actually get worse.

And we always call that the–if you remember those old school dolls that their eyes would move when you move them. But any movement can sometimes make it worse, because it’s almost like they’re a little bit dizzy, so that the extra motion can make that nystagmus or that eye twitching worse. In some cases, they can get bad enough that they can have tremors and seizures. But the other thing we start to see is mobility issues. Most of the time, they start to walk around like they’re drunk, and then they’ll start to lose the ability to stand. Many times they’ll be falling, or sometimes they can start to circle, even in polio, and then they can’t walk anymore. And once they’re down, a lot of times the prognosis goes down from there too, because now we have a down goat, and all of the problems that come along with having a down goat that can’t walk complicates things. And the prognosis goes down from there, for sure. 

But those are the big ones. The neurologic symptoms and signs are the big ones. Sometimes in the very early stages, you can even just notice things as subtle as them having droopy ears, like their ears are just not–like especially Alpine and Nigerians, right, where they have them up like an airplane–they may have droopy ears and drooling can be a very subtle first sign where they may not start acting neurologic yet. 

Deborah 07:52
Okay, so then, how can you distinguish goat polio symptoms from other diseases? 

Dr. Holahan 07:58
The black and white answer is it’s not easy, and oftentimes on the farm, we’re not differentiating them, because differentiating those diseases oftentimes would require advanced imaging, like a CT or an MRI, which most of us are not going to be doing for our goats, even the ones that have names and collars. And potentially a CSF tap, so a spinal tap. And so many times we’re going based off of clinical signs, the history, and treating for the top neurologic diseases. 

And so that’s why, when we do come out on the farm as a veterinarian, we’re going to be treating for the top neurologic diseases together. And I know some people kind of nickname it the kitchen sink theory, where you’re just kind of throwing the kitchen sink at them. But in reality, we’re trying to justify each of those treatments. And so many times we are putting antibiotics on board for protection against listeria, and just making sure that that may not be a factor. 

Rabies, in itself, doesn’t truly have a treatment. So in that case, if the animal is declining, and declining rapidly, rabies would be higher on your differential list if they’re declining. And so in some cases, that may be a situation where we recommend humane euthanasia and potentially testing for rabies, which most states will test for free. It just depends on your state laws and where you have to get that animal for testing. 

And then the other diseases besides polio, which again is really more of a syndrome when we’re talking about neurologic diseases, are meningeal worm has become a bigger issue in our goats. And we are seeing more meningeal worm that used to be a disease that we just associated with alpacas and llamas, because they’re way more–they’re much higher risk–and that’s why we do monthly ivermectin or Dectomax for them to prevent it. But we are seeing more in goats, and so I’ll see, I don’t know, probably a handful of them every season. 

And so for that, we’re going to treat for meningeal worm, and we’re going to protect them for that, because we don’t have a lot of side effects from the treatment. So it’s safe to treat for that as well. So we usually, in those cases, are going to give a dewormer, depending on kind of what the symptoms are. We may give an injection of ivermectin. And then from there, we’re treating the brain swelling and the cerebral edema itself. And so oftentimes, that’s usually going to be steroids. There’s been no studies to really show Banamine versus steroids. So sometimes it just kind of depends on how the patient’s doing. I try not to do both together, because then we increase the risk of GI ulceration or ulcers of the stomach. But you can do one or the other. 

And then if they’re really bad and they’re really down and out, then we start talking about more critical care treatments. And that becomes mannitol to remove the swelling from the brain, essentially. And then, in some cases, just more supportive care. If they’re not eating and they’re not feeling good, we’re going to do IV fluids, IV fluid therapy, that type of stuff. 

Deborah 10:35
Okay. And then why is thiamine critical in treating goat polio, and how is it administered effectively? 

Dr. Holahan 10:43
So thiamine, the sequela of goat polio, or one of the primary reasons why we see goat polio, is the disruption in the production of thiamine. And the reason that that is important is because there’s a lot of things that can cause that. It’s not just goat polio happens. A good example would be maybe a goat that gets into too much feed and gets rumen acidosis, and then we have the imbalance from there, and they develop goat polio. 

Thiamine in general, or B1, is produced by the rumen. So if we have a happy goat with a happy rumen, and they’re eating well, they’re going to produce thiamine, and we don’t have to worry about it. There is some that we’re getting from the diet. We are getting some of these vitamins and trace minerals from the diet, but thiamine in itself in small ruminants is being produced by a happy, healthy rumen. And if we don’t have that, really in theory, anything that disrupts that part of the pathway could lead to a thiamine issue and could lead to goat polio. 

And so we always have to start back up here is what caused that goat to go off feed? Or what caused that goat’s rumen to be unbalanced? What, maybe, caused rumen acidosis or dysbiosis, which is just disruption of a healthy rumen? And why did we have this disruption in the thiamine, or the production of thiamine? 

There are some toxins or plants that will cause thiamine issues. And so the big ones in our are, depending on what area you’re in, are bracken fern, pigweed, and then I think horsetail is the other–like the big three that we think about. So potentially, if you just put them out on a new pasture, that’s why it’s important to kind of look at a history and look at the symptoms and what’s happening. So if they just went on to a new pasture where maybe they are being exposed to something like that, they could be more prone to developing goat polio. 

But knowing what the underlying disease is is really kind of what’s best in the diagnosis, so that we don’t see recurrences, because if we just throw thiamine at them, or we throw a B1 at them, we’re potentially missing the underlying reason for the disease, and it’s going to reoccur. 

Deborah 12:40
Okay. And so how quickly should you see a goat recover from polio if the treatment is started early and you’re on top of it, and then are there any long term effects? 

Dr. Holahan 12:52
Yeah, so that’s a great question. So when we’re treating goat polio, again, no matter what the cause is, that got us there to the thiamine deficiency. If we have a thiamine issue, I should say not truly deficiency, but if we have a thiamine issue, you’re usually going to see response pretty quickly. Many times if, under the direction of a veterinarian, you can actually give thiamine IV slowly. However, even giving it subcutaneously or intramuscularly, you can see a response within sometimes 15 minutes to an hour. 

I have videos and photos of animals where they were lateral and we had to pull them into the treatment area or the farm barn area on a sled, and then an hour later, before I’m leaving, they’re already sitting up and trying to stand and get up, whereas they were not ambulatory an hour ago. So you will see a rapid response, and that is one diagnosis, so to speak–response to treatment–that maybe we are on the right track, and there was a thiamine issue going on. 

So it’s pretty rapid response, but I do find the more goats I treat with suspected goat polio or underlying neurologic disease that is undiagnosed, I find that hitting them kind of hard and fast really helps. So the first couple days, I’ll do higher doses, if the farmer is able to do it multiple times a day, and then I will taper that off. I also find that giving the thiamine over the course of a couple weeks with a slower tapering dose helps to get them back on track. Because remember, goats that don’t feel good aren’t eating well, and their rumen is usually off. And so we’ve got this kind of week to two weeks where everything’s kind of getting back to normal and getting a healthy gut biome with the healthy rumen bacteria. And so sometimes the first two or three weeks, we’re still recovering. 

I will have them every other day, you know, once a day to every other day to every third day, kind of taper off. And I think that helps. Long term side effects, if we are lucky and we have, let’s say we have a down goat that’s not walking, and we’re able to get that animal back up and walking and survives the initial first couple days. Most of the time they are going to have some residual neurologic side effects. I would say that’s not uncommon to see. 

The most common things I see is sometimes they’ll still be a little wobbly, but they can still walk and do all the things normal. I’ve had another goat that kind of walks to the side a little bit, but she’s made a full recovery. And then sometimes you’ll see the most common thing is the residual head tilt, where they just kind of look like they’re listening to you, but they always have a little bit of a head tilt. 

And for me, those are things that are not harmful. They’re not hurting, they’re not painful to the animals. They’re just, it’s like a person having a stroke, right? You’re always, in some cases, you’re going to have some symptoms or signs from that stroke, but you’re able to have a normal quality of life as far as the function of the goat goes. 

Deborah 15:31
Okay. And then I want to mention to our listeners that thiamine is a prescription drug. And so you see a lot of people on Facebook and stuff saying, Oh, you don’t need to call your vet. Just get some B complex at the local farm store and use that. What is the danger of doing that? 

Dr. Holahan 15:47
So dosing would be one thing. That’s one of the things I see most commonly as a mistake is a lot of people will grab B complex, and there’s nothing wrong with using B complex in this situation, but thiamine, or vitamin B1 if you’re just getting a bottle of that, is five times as potent as B complex. So if you’re going to dose that for a goat, I’ll just give you the example, like if you’re dosing it one mil per 100 pounds for thiamine, B complex is going to be five mils per 100 pounds. 

Which you can imagine, even in a Nigerian, that’s a lot of drug to give, and then you’ve got to double it for a standard size go, right? So I typically always try to steer people towards thiamine because it’s just a smaller injection, smaller dose, and it’s more concentrated. If animals don’t need B vitamins, they’re going to usually urinate it out. So unlike some of our other trace minerals, things like that, where, you know, copper would be a good example, you could get into trouble with having a toxicity, but it’d be much harder, because the animal is usually going to urinate it out if they don’t need it. 

Yes, go ahead and, you know, you can give a dose of thiamine, but get a hold of your veterinarian. At least get your veterinarian on the phone, get them involved, kind of talk through the case and what’s going on, because oftentimes it’s not just thiamine that that animal needs. And so that’s where your veterinarian is going to come into play. And I, you know, for many of my clients that have been raising goats for 20-30 years, I will give them the initial treatment over the phone and say, Yeah, let’s just go ahead and get this started. I can be to your farm in three hours. I can put you in my emergency slot at the end of the day, or wherever that might be. And if I’m comfortable with them, because they’ve had experience and I have a relationship with them, I will absolutely tell them to go ahead and get some med started. 

But thiamine alone is oftentimes not enough, and so I just worry, you know, the problem is you read what you read on the internet, and then you throw the kitchen sink at them, but it was the wrong kitchen sink or the tools that were in it, right? And so in those cases, I think it’s just always important to have your veterinarian involved. And some people don’t have a veterinarian nearby, but I do think that there’s enough of a support system that with your extension officers or extension people, with your state veterinary hospital mentors, certainly people that may have more experience as well, but like, be able to find some support to have a veterinarian involved. 

Deborah 17:57
Okay, yeah, I know one of the things that you see a lot of times mentioned is the possibility of, like, lead poisoning causing issues with thiamine. And so if you like just keep retreating and stuff without trying to figure out the cause, that could be a really big problem, you know, and eventually affecting multiple goats. So I think that’s the other thing too. Usually you’re only going to see thiamine deficiency in one animal. It’s not going to be affecting multiple goats.

Dr. Holahan 18:21
Yeah. And you can see that sometimes too, even if you had like a primary listeria, even though, in some cases, they may have all been exposed to it, sometimes it’s just one animal that gets enough of a dose that ends up having the clinical signs and the clinical disease. So I agree with you, a lot of times it’s usually like single animal diseases. But even for things like that, where you would think listeria, maybe they all ate moldy silage and they were all exposed to the same thing, sometimes you only have one goat that was sick enough, you know, and affected enough to be clinical. 

But I definitely think that it’s something where you do have to be careful. You don’t want to get into a situation where you’re just constantly, every time they’re acting neurologic, throwing thiamine at them, because there’s, there’s an underlying disease there. And so many times when I go out to the farm, depending on the case, we talk about doing blood work to make sure, even if it’s just a baseline profile, to look at their chemistry, look at their liver and their kidneys. We usually will do a cursory ultrasound of their abdomen and lungs just to make sure we don’t have any chronic pneumonia. You know, is there something that’s throwing them off feed and just making them feel kind of off and punky for a couple days, and then the spiral starts, right? 

And then, often a fecal too. I can’t tell you, I mean, FAMACHA scoring is awesome. Body condition scoring is awesome. I think they’re great tools. But there are some times where I have a very, very high parasite load, and those animals are not anemic. Their FAMACHA score is normal. And so I think those are cases where it’s important to get something as simple as a fecal and send that out, because do we have comorbidities, or do we have co-diseases that are happening that are predisposing the animal to developing polio? 

Deborah 19:57
Yeah, that totally makes sense. So you’ve mentioned a little bit, are there other environmental factors that people need to be paying attention to? Like, obviously moldy hay or feed could play a part in messing up the rumen and stopping the production of thiamine, because the rumen is not happy and healthy at that point. 

Dr. Holahan 20:15
Right. 

Deborah 20:16
Is there anything else that people need to do and think about in terms of controlling the environment and dietary practices? 

Dr. Holahan 20:23
Yeah. So I think the big things for most of my farms, as far as predisposing factors, are the common one of like keeping feed up and out of the area where goats can’t get to it. Even if they have a goat breakout, which happens, the feed is somewhere that they can’t get to it. Or in, you know, I think of those vault plastic ones, that I think they are called the vault that, like, have the spin tops. I know some goats can still figure out how to get those off, but at least that is something where, you know, they can tip over bins and all that stuff. So trying to have your feed secure, so that they don’t get a grain overload, I think, is one. 

Really making sure, no matter where you live, that you have a goat-specific grain, and they’re getting goat-specific feed, whether they’re on grain or pellets or whatnot. I think it’s really important to stick with the species-specific and not just kind of throwing the all stock grain at them, because I think sometimes that’s where we get into issues with deficiencies in trace minerals, and then sometimes that can just be a downward spiral if we have an animal that’s deficient. So I think that’s really important to monitor and look for those things. 

And then, on that same note–feeding them food that’s specific for goats–not allowing them to get into chicken feed, not allowing them to have access to the swine feed or the cattle feed, you know, that type of thing. I think it can always be helpful. Feeding off the ground: you know, whenever possible, feed in clean dishes. Feed off the ground, you know, in hay feeders instead of on the ground. That’s going to help with moldy feed, or at least reducing the risk. And then, if you’re feeding outside, make sure that those feeders are covered so that they’re not getting wet or rained on. 

I think that’s another thing too. I’ve seen some listeria cases where we’ve gone out and the bottom part of the feed has kind of just sat and kind of rotted, and then feed has just been added on top of it, right? But then that silly goat that eats the bottom feed gets the moldy feed. So I’ve seen that situation before as well, and just making sure that the dishes and the hay racks are all clean, I think those are the big ones. 

And then just making sure you’ve got a healthy diet. I always tell people, “Don’t overthink it. It’s very simple.” Goats need a good quality grass hay. Yes, they might need an alfalfa hay as well, depending on what’s going on in their lifestyle. They need a good quality goat-specific grain. They need a good quality goat-specific, loose mineral and fresh water, you know, the four things. 

And I think that some people get, like, so tied up and doing all these other things, or the mineral buffet and spending all this money. And in reality, they just need these four things. And if they have those, you have, you know, 90–probably 95-98% of time, you’re gonna have a happy, healthy goat with that. So I think just sticking to those things helps to keep them balanced and keep the rumen happy. 

Deborah 23:57
Has our understanding of goat polio evolved over the years? Are there any recent advancements in knowledge or treatment options? 

Dr. Holahan 23:04
As far as treatment goes, not really. I mean, I think that we are more prone to diagnosing it earlier. I think that a lot of our farmers do notice the subtle clinical signs. So we don’t always see the animal that’s spiraling out of control and down and not been walking for several days. So I think that people are treating it earlier, but there isn’t any fancy drugs or anything like that. You know, not to oversimplify it, but you know, the mainstay for treatment is thiamine, but also the treatment is figuring out what the diagnosis is, what led to that, what predisposed them? 

Deborah 23:38
Yeah, I think it’s really important not to talk to too many people who used to raise goats, like 20 years ago. You just hear so many things like, Oh, well, if they got that, they’re just gonna die. There’s nothing you can do. Or something like that. And it’s like, well, no, we’ve got a much better understanding now for how this works. 

Dr. Holahan 23:59
Yeah, I would say in general, when I think of the neurologic goat, because polio just gets lumped into that, right? When I think of the neurologic goat, I would say, in general, probably about 70% success rate with treatment, as far as you know, back to almost a normal goat quality of life. 

If they’ve been down for a couple days, then you know, usually that may go down to 50%. Listeria is sometimes hard. I will see them 50%, even if they’re caught early, will recover really well. And the other 50%, no matter what we throw at them for aggressive treatment, they just don’t recover. So I do think that overall prognosis is good. 

What we usually do, though, and I’ve seen some take, you know, sometimes longer to recover, one week to two weeks to fully recover. So sometimes it does become a game of, you know, what are we going to do nursing care wise on the farm, because it can be a lot on somebody, depending on what else you have going on and what else you have on your farm. Can you devote the nursing care to getting this patient up and using a sling to lift them and doing some physical therapy, you know? Or is this something where if they go down, then you’re not, you know, you don’t have the means to treat it? And so I think that’s always a conversation to have with owners, but I have had ones that are very committed, and usually those patients will recover. 

Deborah 25:12
Yeah, this has been so interesting, and I think people are going to find it really helpful. Is there anything else that you think people need to know about goat polio? 

Dr. Holahan 25:21
I think catching it early, like we talked about, and I think even if you have a veterinarian that is not a goat specialist, so to speak. Just having a veterinarian that you have a good relationship with, or a veterinarian that you can talk to over Zoom consults. I do that a lot for other veterinarians and other goat owners, so that you have somebody that you can go to, at least to kind of talk through stuff. 

Yes, you have to have somebody that has boots on the ground, but just having a good team approach, so to speak, I think is important, especially as we continue to learn more about treating our goat patients and continue to be able to offer more to treating our goat patients. I think just having those resources and knowing what resources you have available, I think is really important.

Deborah 26:04
Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Dr. Holahan 26:07
Thank you. Have a great day, 

Deborah 26:09
And that’s it for today’s show. If you haven’t already done so, be sure to hit the “subscribe” button so that you don’t miss any episodes. To see show notes, you can always visit ForTheLoveOfGoats.com and you can follow us on Facebook at Facebook.com/LoveGoatsPodcast. See you again next time. Bye for now!