History of Nigerian Dwarf Goats in ADGA

Episode 144
For the Love of Goats

The Nigerian Dwarf goat has become a staple breed in the American Dairy Goat Association, and it has only grown in popularity since first arriving in the US from Africa in the 20th century. But how did these wonderful goats climb the ladder from relative obscurity to high demand?

In today’s episode, we are talking to Karyl Dronen, an ADGA Pioneer who worked tirelessly beginning in the late ‘90s to get Nigerian Dwarfs accepted into the American Dairy Goat Association. Karyl relays the story of how she, along with several others who were equally as passionate, lobbied to have the breed accepted into ADGA as a dairy goat breed. She also touches on how the induction of the breed into ADGA in 2005 has gone on to support the organization into the present day. 

Though Nigerian Dwarfs are so well-known today, there was a time when they were little known and out of favor against the bigger dairy breeds. Karyl’s story of how a group of people saw their potential and worked relentlessly to bring them into the limelight is truly inspiring and one that any lover of the breed should hear. 

Transcript – History of Nigerian Dwarf Goats in ADGA

Introduction 0:03
For the love of goats! We are talking about everything goat. Whether you’re a goat owner, a breeder, or just a fan of these wonderful creatures, we’ve got you covered. And now, here is Deborah Niemann.

Deborah 00:17
Hello everyone, and welcome to today’s episode. I’m really thrilled today to be joined by someone who has been involved in Nigerian Dwarf goats, which I have been raising since 2002. She’s had them even longer. And so I’m really excited to be joined today by Karyl Dronen. All of us with Nigerians owe her a huge debt of gratitude for working so tirelessly to get the Nigerian Dwarfs accepted into the American Dairy Goat Association in 2005. She actually started raising goats back in 1977 and then got Oberhaslis in the 1980s and her first Nigerian Dwarf in 1999. And one of the things I learned about her is that last month when she was actually named an ADGA Pioneer, she had an Oberhasli doe that won the national championship five years, which I didn’t know anyone had ever done that. So this is somebody who really knows her goats. So I’m really excited to be able to talk to her today about the Nigerian Dwarfs. Welcome to the show today, Karyl.

Karyl 01:23
Thank you.

Deborah 01:24
So tell us a little bit about: why did you decide to get Nigerian Dwarfs back in the ‘90s when nobody even knew what they were?

Karyl 01:33
Well, Marjorie Kitchen knew what they were, and she and I decided that, well, we thought that these little goats were pretty cute and that we’d like to be raising them. So she sent her husband down to Texas to buy does, and then I bought a buck for her, and the buck was Gay Mars Kitty Max. I bought him in July of ‘99. So that’s how we kind of got started. And then some of the other information that I found out while I was researching for this, I didn’t even know about how they got to the United States and all of this business, so I can elaborate on that a little bit. I knew that they were in zoos first, and that they were called WAD, which is West African Dwarfs. And they were brought over here, imported in, even as far back as the 1930s.

So they had been coming over here to be on exhibition in zoos for quite a long time. They are quite prolific as far as reproducing themselves. So there came a point where there were more in the zoos than the zoos could handle anymore. So at that point in time, it’s my understanding, that they allowed other people to start buying or procuring the goat some way from the zoos. So then they were in a registry that’s called The International. I believe that’s right. And they were there, but that group did not have any shows. It was just a registry. So then people wanted to show those goats, and that’s how they ended up in the American Goat Society registration. Since they didn’t have pedigrees, per se, they were called committee goats.

Deborah 03:48
Oh, committee registered. I remember that. I had a couple of my first goats that their ancestors said committee registered.

Karyl 03:57
Right. So that’s how they started out after they got out of the zoos. They were committee registered, so if they looked like what the criteria was, then they were accepted. So that’s how they started to become purebreds. And AGS, the American Goat Society, is a purebred only register, so they were then registered as purebreds. So then we get to where, how they got into ADGA, which is a long process, really. It started out in 1996, and that is the year that ANDDA (A- N-D-D-A), the American Nigerian Dwarf Association, was born. And that is a breed club. It is not a registry. It’s a breed club, and the purpose of the breed club was like all the rest of the breed clubs, to support the promotion of the breed and ongoing entrance into other registries. So the American Goat Society agreed to start registering the Nigerians in their organization.

Deborah 05:18
So the American Goat Society started registering them in 1996.

Karyl 05:24
Yeah, and that’s when ANDDA was started. Before they were just registered with AGS. Now they have a breed club. And the breed club, they focused on the height determinations and a lot of other things. So it was determined that the height requirement should be 22 and a half inches to 23 and a half for does, 24 for bucks, and that kind of thing. They were in AGS for a number of years. And then in 1999, Tom and Sue Rucker and Marge and Earl Kitchen and myself, plus other people, started working on the proposal for the acceptance of Nigerians into the American Dairy Goat Association registry.

Deborah 06:33
And how did that go?

Karyl 06:35
Well, it took quite a while to get it through that process, but we knew that if we could get it into ADGA, we would get a lot more shows and a lot more prestige, let’s put it that way. So of course, the people in ADGA were not too excited about this whole thing, because of the fact that they thought that they would take away from the organization. How, I don’t know. But anyway, as I felt, and all of these other people that I mentioned felt, that they would end up taking over the registry and saving the registry, so that was one of our selling points, just because the fact that they have that many kids, people would register all those kids and whatever. And now you see shows that are dominated by the Nigerian Dwarf breed and national shows that are dominated by the breed.

Anyway, in 1999 this is what happened, that all of us got together and started working on this proposal. Actually, Tom wrote the proposal, and then Marge and I and Earl kind of were the people who had been around ADGA a long time, and knew a lot of people in ADGA because we had shown nationally, and Marge had her business at that time of goat gifts so she went to all of the Nationals and the conventions and had booths there. So we knew lots and lots of people in the organization, and we started just speaking to all of those people about this breed, how we have them and we wish that they could come into ADGA, and that they would be a benefit to ADGA.

And during this time, we also would have little events at the conventions where we would put on, kind of like a wine and cheese party, and invite people to come. And then they’d have to learn about the Nigerian Dwarf. So in the beginning, not too many people wanted to come, but as time went on, we could get more and more people in there. We talked about them and we took them to any show, if it was like an AGS show that had an ADGA, you know, show hooked onto it. We went to all of those. We just drug our little goats all over every place, so they got to see them even if they didn’t want to.

The other thing that we did is we made buttons, little buttons, and passed them out to everybody, whether they wanted them or not. We made tons of buttons–Marge and I–and we passed them around to people so that they could wear these little ANDDA buttons. And we’d pay for the booth space, and we’d always put up a booth in the vendor room, and with all of the information on it from ANDDA so that they, you know, would have to pass by it when they went in there and looked at everything else. So it’s sort of, I think it’s sort of helped, you know, boost interest anyway.

Deborah 09:39
What did the buttons say?

Karyl 09:40
They said “Support ANDDA” and they had that little–you know how ANDDA has that little Nigerian in the middle of their logo? It was like that. So that’s what they were. And then on our table, just like now, we had all the information about the breed club ANDDA and all pictures of all of the winners from AGS shows and things like that, just so that people could see that they looked like little dairy goats. They didn’t look like pygmies. They look like little dairy goats. Plus, I’ve been on tests for a long, long time, and so all of these little goats were on tests too, so they could see that they milked real well and that kind of thing. Then in 2000 was when the proposal was submitted to the Committee of Registration in ADGA.

Deborah 10:40
Oh, wow. That was five years before they got accepted.

Karyl 10:44
Right. But no board action was taken. So, at that same time, we were putting on more wine and cheese events and whatever we could do to help the directors learn more and more about them and how they would benefit ADGA. So then in 2001, just a year later, in Portland, Oregon, when the convention was there, the proposal was presented by Linda Campbell to the Board of Directors, and there was a vote. I can remember that very vividly. We didn’t know how it was going to go, because it was pretty close, I think, but it passed. So that’s when it passed for the organization. And then in 2005, the first registration of Nigerian Dwarf animals in ADGA started.

Deborah 11:46
So what happened? What were they doing between 2001 and 2005?

Karyl 11:52
Well, in 2003 we brought animals to Nashville. The Convention was there, and we brought a whole string of animals for the whole week so that judges could start training on them, you know, by using them. And so that’s what was going on during then. Plus we were, you know, promotion, promotion, promotion into getting more people to be interested in raising them, and that kind of thing. So that’s what was going on in between there. So we weren’t just sitting around.

Deborah 12:30
Yeah, I remember that was back in the day of the Yahoo groups, and I remember people in the Yahoo groups arguing about how much milk a Nigerian should have to produce in order to get a milk star in ADGA, because they didn’t just copy everything that AGS was doing. They created their own guidelines. Like it was a completely different chart for earning milk stars than what AGS had.

Karyl 12:55
Yes, you’re right. So all of those things were going on during this time period. And then, between the time when Nigerians were accepted and started being registered, then in 2010 they attended the first national show.

Deborah 13:16
Wow, I didn’t realize it was so long between the time that they first started registering and when they first showed at the national show.

Karyl 13:24
Yes, well, a national show is a different thing than registrations. It’s a lot more money. You know, you have to have more judges, and you have to have a lot more. So it took a while for them to get, you know, everything changed so that Nigerians could attend that national show. And now they are the biggest breed showing at the national show. They need a lot more room, you know, in their pens and things like that–you know, the show rings–a lot more room because, especially kids, you can have so many kids out there that the judges, they’d be hard pressed to even see all the kids, because there’s so many of them in that, you know, in that space.

Deborah 14:09
Yeah, I’ve heard that the classes at nationals for the Nigerians are just huge now. How many goats are there? Because an individual class would be like your three to six month olds, and six to nine month olds, and then like your two year olds, and five year olds. And how big exactly are some of those classes now?

Karyl 14:28
Oh, wow, hundreds. 150, maybe or more, you know, some of those classes. And a lot of people don’t even show kids, so, you know, there’s still a lot of people showing. And National Show really has been the telling point, I think, because that’s where, you know, all of the pens of Nigerians all over the the entire fairgrounds, or wherever we’re at, and then all of the animals in each class and everything else– it’s really high, and I think it probably will get higher. I’m really proud that they got in there, proud of all the work that we had to do to get them there, and I think that they’ve made a great contribution to ADGA, and they basically are saving ADGA.

Deborah 15:21
And what do you mean by that?

Karyl 15:23
Just the amount of revenue coming into the organization. The organization had been struggling, you know, with the numbers being–there just weren’t as many standard goats as there had been before, and with this influx, it has really helped.

Deborah 16:09
Yeah, I think Nigerians are really nice for people who have no livestock experience, because they’re about the same size as a large dog, and not even a huge dog, just a large dog. You know, they’re knee-high. So it’s a lot less intimidating to go from a dog to a goat that’s knee-high than to go to a goat that is a lot taller and might weigh more than you.

And it’s kind of funny, because I know in the beginning, because my daughters liked showing, and so when they were still home, we would go to shows. And initially, we really felt like second class citizens, because a lot of those people with standard goats were looking down their noses at our little goats, like they’re not real dairy goats. And they would always say, how do you milk those teats? And it’s like, it’s really a matter of technique. Like I honestly, because we also had some LaManchas, and I honestly found the Nigerians easier to milk than the LaManchas because of the technique. Like, I could do several different things to milk the Nigerians with my fingers, whereas with the big goats, it was all just one big hand motion, because you’re just using your whole hand the whole time.

So it was just a mind shift for people. I can see where new people would find the Nigerians a better gateway into the world of goats than a larger animal.

Karyl 17:07
Yes, yes, I think so. That’s the way I feel. And at this time, it’s a little bit more difficult to sell goats than it had been earlier. But I think that has to do with the economy, and I’m sure that will turn around too.

Deborah 17:27
So you’re still raising goats?

Karyl 17:29
Yes.

Deborah 17:29
How many do you have now?

Karyl 17:32
Oh, probably about 25 does with the kids and then there’s 10, I believe. No, yeah, maybe that many bucks.

Deborah 17:44
Okay, yeah, that’s–for anyone who’s not familiar with this, it is a running joke that people with Nigerians have too many bucks.

Karyl 17:52
Yes, yes, I’m sure. But for those of us who have never figured out how to do AI, I always have my bucks collected. I just never have been successful with AI. I’m still hopeful, and they aren’t any harder, I don’t think, to AI than standard breeds. It’s just the fact that I’ve never felt that I was successful with any of it. I’ve gone to lots of classes over the years and everything else, but no success. I think I get too nervous.

Deborah 18:27
Well, and it’s really, I think, it’s a lot easier to keep a buck that weighs 70 pounds than one that weighs 150 to 250 pounds. And I personally want to keep a buck out of all my favorite does. Sometimes I want to keep two or three bucks out of my favorite does. And when they’re smaller, it just makes it a little easier to do that. And then you can watch them mature and decide, you know, wait until they’re like, maybe two or three before you decide if you want to sell one. And occasionally, I’ve even had some where I’m like, You know what, I just really don’t like, I don’t like how you’ve matured. Or, because I expect my bucks to be really close to perfect, so if I don’t like the way they’ve matured, they might actually get castrated as a yearling and sold as a wether at that point. So, and again, I think that’s a lot easier to do too. Castrating a Nubian or a Saanen or something, and selling it as a pet when it’s a year old, I don’t think there’s a big market for that.

Karyl 19:28
No, I don’t either.

Deborah 19:30
So what are your plans for the future?

Karyl 19:33
Well, we’re already talking about going to National Show, because it’s going to be pretty close–Grand Island. And even though we live on the east edge of Minnesota, it’s a straight shot, you know?

Deborah 19:48
What state is Grand Island?

Karyl 19:50
It’s Nebraska.

Deborah 19:51
Okay, I live off of I-80, so might even be pretty easy for me to come out there and maybe get a buck. So I haven’t bought a doe since 2005 because I always want to keep all my goats, and so I can’t justify buying a doe when I already keep too many, but I bring new genetics into my herd with the bucks.

Karyl 20:15
Well, that’s a good plan.

Deborah 20:17
Yeah. So I know there’s going to be a lot of nice bucklings at that show next year. So you’re going to keep raising goats for the foreseeable future and showing?

Karyl 20:32
As long as we can. We don’t show like we used to show at all. We probably show maybe three shows or something, but we will keep doing it as long as we can, and as long as we have health and that, you know. All of those things are a factor, because you have to have people taking care of things at home when you go. And then you have to have people helping you get out there, drive out there, and do other things. And so as long as we can have drivers and people to take care of the homestead, then we’ll probably go.

Deborah 21:10

Yeah, definitely. Well, thanks for joining us. Is there anything else that you think that people should know about Nigerian Dwarfs before we end today?

Karyl 21:19
Other than they’re great little animals.

Deborah 21:21
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been raising them since 2002 and I haven’t done an episode on them because I felt like I’m obviously biased because I’ve had them for so long, and I feel like I’m just another breeder. So when I saw you at the National Convention last month, I was real excited to have you on the show to talk about them, because you’ve been around Nigerians, you know, as long as anybody. You’re probably the longest running breeder, like Tom Rucker has retired, and all the people you bought your goats from have retired. So I think right now, you’re probably like the most experienced Nigerian Dwarf breeder out there who’s still going.

Karyl 22:03
Well, there’s a few left. There’s Rosasharn. She’s still breeding, and she was before us. And as far as having national quality animals. And then Dragonfly, I’m not sure exactly when they started breeding, but, you know, but a lot of the people in the East have even quit, you know, breeding now, and some of them aren’t even as old as I am, so I don’t know.

Deborah 23:36
Well. Thank you so much for joining us today. It has been such a pleasure to talk with you.

Karyl 22:41
A pleasure to talk to you, too. Thank you.

Deborah 22:44
And that’s it for today’s show. If you haven’t already done so, be sure to hit the “subscribe” button so that you don’t miss any episodes. To see show notes, you can always visit ForTheLoveOfGoats.com and you can follow us on Facebook at Facebook.com/LoveGoatsPodcast. See you again next time. Bye for now!